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Trigger warning
This episode includes discussion of severe postnatal mental health challenges, including postpartum psychosis, hospitalization, and panic. If you or someone you know needs medical assistance, please contact your healthcare professional.
If you’re in Canada and need support right now:
- Call or text 9-8-8 – Suicide Crisis Helpline, available 24/7/365, bilingual.
Youth & young adults: Kids Help Phone 1-800-668-6868 or text 686868 (24/7).
- Find additional federal & provincial/territorial resources at Canada.ca/mental-health.
- If you or someone you know is in immediate danger, call 9-1-1.
When Cara welcomed twins via C-section in Scotland, early feeding difficulties, sleep deprivation, and a sudden medical complication spiraled into postpartum psychosis. After a terrifying crisis and an ambulance call, Cara was admitted to a Mother–Baby Unit, where specialized, compassionate care helped her stabilize, bond safely with her babies, and reclaim her sense of self. Years later—now a nurse—she shares what recovery looks like, how family and clinicians can recognize red flags, and why empathetic, practical support matters.
Why you should listen
When new motherhood collides with a medical emergency, sleepless nights, and overwhelming pressure, the result can be life-threatening—but also deeply misunderstood. In this raw and courageous conversation, Cara shares her firsthand experience with postpartum psychosis, from a terrifying onset to full recovery and renewal.
Whether you’re a parent, clinician, or advocate, this episode reminds us how vital it is to listen without judgment, recognize early warning signs, and respond with compassion and urgency. Cara’s journey sheds light on both the fragility and strength of mothers navigating unseen battles—and the power of the right support at the right time.
Episode highlights
- 00:00 Welcome & content warning
- 01:30 Level-setting: what postpartum psychosis is (and isn’t)
- 06:45 Pregnancy, twins, and birth story
- 10:20 Medical complication; babies in NICU; no sleep
- 15:00 “Something’s wrong”: self-advocacy meets minimization
- 17:30 Collapsing, ambulance, and a pivotal advocate
- 24:30 Mother–Baby Unit: stabilization, meds, gradual reintegration
- 29:20 Going home: confidence, community, and recovery
- 32:10 Tools that help now (therapy, boundaries, rest, ritual)
- 37:20 Gentle self-care: Cara’s bath ritual
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Transcript
Episode 8
[00:00:00] Ursula: Welcome to Amplify Elevating Patient Voices, a podcast powered by patient voice partners, where real stories spark bold conversations. I’m Ursula Mann.
[00:00:13] Brent: And I’m Brent Korte. [00:00:15] Together we’re talking with patients, caregivers. The healthcare change makers who are listening and taking action
[00:00:22] Ursula: from personal journeys to policy shifts.
[00:00:24] Ursula: These are the voices shaping a healthcare system that listens.
[00:00:34] Ursula: Before we begin, a quick note about today’s episode. This episode includes discussion of mental health challenges which may be distressing for some listeners. If you or someone you know is struggling, [00:00:45] please reach out for support. You’re not alone. Please reach out to your healthcare professional for further conversations.
[00:00:51] Ursula: Christine, I’m delighted to have this conversation with you today and welcome a guest that’s really very important to me in my life, but it’s a tough topic that we’re talking about today. [00:01:00] What are your thoughts?
[00:01:01] Christine: Well, it is a difficult topic. I look forward to hearing from Cara about her story because I can only imagine.
[00:01:08] Christine: I’m a mother of two, and when you say postpartum psychosis, a lot of thoughts go through my head and I can [00:01:15] imagine how difficult a situation that must have been for everybody involved. Obviously Cara, but everybody else around her as well. So I really look forward to having this conversation with her and learning more about it.
[00:01:27] Ursula: I agree and I really appreciate her openness [00:01:30] to come and tell us exactly what happened and what her experience is and what she remembered and what other people experienced as well. Postpartum psychosis is a very serious situation, and even as we were talking about this as a team, as we were thinking, there’s a lot of mis [00:01:45] perceptions out there. So we’re gonna level set Christine first for some facts to get started and help people understand what this is, what are the symptoms and how many people does this affect? So given that even within the team we’re like postpartum psychosis, is that [00:02:00] postpartum depression? It’s not.
[00:02:01] Ursula: Let’s start there , So these are two distinct mental health conditions that occur after childbirth, postpartum depression. It’s also known as postnatal depression. It affects about one in eight people who have recently [00:02:15] given birth and symptoms are things like persistent feelings of sadness, anxiety, and irritability that can interfere with daily functioning.
[00:02:24] Ursula: Now, it can develop within the first few weeks after delivery, but they can also appear much later, [00:02:30] so that’s postpartum depression. What we’re gonna be talking about today is postpartum psychosis. That is far less common. That affects about one in a thousand people. Doesn’t mean That you had a history of mental health illness.
[00:02:43] Ursula: It’s just somebody that gave [00:02:45] birth, and those are the stats as to what happens now. There’s a rapid onset of symptoms. These include hallucinations. Delusions confusion. These are very severe symptoms and I can’t emphasize enough that it is really important [00:03:00] that the person gets immediate medical attention in order to be able to get treatment.
[00:03:04] Ursula: And so that’s what we’re gonna be talking about today. I appreciate the seriousness of this and really life-changing situation that people learn as they go through this as [00:03:15] to what their life looks like moving forward and things to consider. So Christine, with that being said, any other thoughts before we invite Cara on to have a conversation?
[00:03:25] Christine: No, other than, like I said earlier, I look forward to hearing the story and learning [00:03:30] more.
[00:03:30] Ursula: Cara, I wanna thank you for joining us today. I know that we have had many chats about mental health over the years, and I wanna talk first about a little bit about younger Cara, when you were smaller and growing up.
[00:03:43] Ursula: I know that your family moved [00:03:45] often, and I’m interested in that movement often. What did that teach you about adapting to new situations? What was childhood like?
[00:03:53] Cara: I would say that my childhood was pretty darn good. I had a mom and dad that loved [00:04:00] me very much. I had grandparents on both sides for Christmas, Thanksgiving.
[00:04:05] Cara: I have a younger brother. He’s about a year and a half younger than me. We moved a lot, believe it or not. I’m five foot two, but growing up I was very [00:04:15] athletic, very tall in my class, I think I’d say a little bit of like a bully. I ran the show at school and so forth. My dad was our CM. And we moved around BC I would say sometimes we are in places for six years.
[00:04:29] Cara: Sometimes we are [00:04:30] in places for two or three. You learn to be resilient when you are moving about from school to school and often it was in the middle of the school year. So you gotta to squeeze yourself in there and find a place and be vocal and learn to act in a [00:04:45] way to have people accept you into their groups.
[00:04:48] Ursula: That’s not an easy situation to be so young and to bouncing around to different schools and new situations, and even knowing that’s coming up, there’s some emotional processing saying, oh, I just settled. We have to go [00:05:00] through this again. Because some were short stints and some were longer. But I appreciate your positivity and yeah, it certainly did teach you resiliency and transitioning and maintaining your identity.
[00:05:10] Ursula: I think there was probably some arm wrestling and wrestling with your brother
[00:05:13] Cara: did. Yeah. You
[00:05:14] Ursula: [00:05:15] were the boss, Cara. Still am.
[00:05:16] Cara: Even though I’m a foot and a half shorter..
[00:05:19] Ursula: Maybe we should not wrestle in it. Yeah, maybe not. And now even at a young age, you were very close to your family and still are, and you have amazing parents .
[00:05:28] Ursula: You wanted to be a mom at a young [00:05:30] age that was important to you.
[00:05:31] Cara: I’ve never imagined a life where I wasn’t able to be a mom. At the age of 30, I was thinking that I would already be married and have children, and I didn’t, but very shortly after, [00:05:45] met my husband when I was about 29. Was it love at first
[00:05:47] Cara: sight? Or he have to walk by? He had to walk by. Finally we realized that it was him and I that were gonna decide to carry on this together. Him and I have been together ever since. We’re still together now.
[00:05:59] Ursula: And you were in [00:06:00] Canada when you met?
[00:06:01] Cara: We did. He asked me to marry him, I was about 29. I said, yes.
[00:06:05] Cara: And he said, and by the way. I’ve been transferred to Aberdeen, Scotland for my work, and I want you to come with me. So oh, just another [00:06:15] move, and I’m good at this wow. Let’s go. So we were in Calgary. I was working with like day homes, the preschools monitoring day homes in Calgary to make sure they were safe.
[00:06:24] Cara: I was happy. Let’s turn over to Scotland .
[00:06:26]
[00:06:26] Ursula: What an adventure, but what a lot to go [00:06:30] through. you’re getting ready for Scotland, your headset. You’ve broken the news to your parents to say, I love you lots, but I’m gonna be a little bit farther to visit. And then where did the pregnancy pop in?
[00:06:41] Cara: So we were in Scotland for about six [00:06:45] months.
[00:06:45] Cara: Found out my grandmother in Canada had cancer and was not doing well. Kurt and I got on the plane at Christmas time. We went and spent some time with my grandmother. And lo and behold I said to Kurt, it’s gonna be a long time before I get pregnant, so we might as well start trying early.
[00:06:59] Cara: [00:07:00] Wham bam, bam , So we got pregnant right off the bat. So then I’m like, oh, we need to, get married here. So went back to Scotland, got our wedding all figured out. Grandma was starting to do a little better with her health, so that was great. In [00:07:15] Scotland we had our little house. Language was a bit more of an issue for me than my husband ’cause he wasn’t my husband at the time.
[00:07:20] Cara: But he worked and was surrounded by a lot of expats and a lot of people that spoke Scottish. So he adapted to the language really quickly. I was a little [00:07:30] slower, even though it’s English, it’s a different type of English, so me to adjust to. Spent a lot of time on FaceTime with my mom and dad that day.
[00:07:38] Cara: We’d yap it up and mom was so excited that I was pregnant because. She’d been hounding me for a few years [00:07:45] now. I want a grand baby. I said, can I please get a boyfriend before you
[00:07:50] Cara: keep pounding me on this? It might happen that way.
[00:07:53] Christine: And sorry. Did you get married in Scotland?
[00:07:55] Cara: We went back in April and got married in chapel here in [00:08:00] Calgary.
[00:08:00] Cara: It was wham, bam, everything included. We got married. I walked down the aisle, five and a half months pregnant. It was with twins. Wow. So there wasn’t this one heartbeat. There was not just two. There was three. Wow. Walking down the aisle. Yeah. Getting married. So [00:08:15] that was pretty incredible. And at five and a half months with twins, I was big.
[00:08:21] Cara: I had quite the belly.
[00:08:23] Christine: Yeah. It would’ve been difficult to hide at that point.
[00:08:26] Cara: Exactly. And that dress get perfect, even though it was like three sizes, two [00:08:30] bigs when I got it.
[00:08:30] Ursula: How big of a surprise was it on the twins? Was this expected? Were you surprised? Were you like, oh wow, you have to replan here?
[00:08:38] Cara: Yeah, no twins on either side of the family, not even in the radar. I was so excited to finally be pregnant. Yeah, like to be [00:08:45] honest. When the lady said, oh, there’s that second heartbeat. I was like, stunned and I was quiet. And my husband said, I’ve never seen you this quiet in my life. It was just a shock.
[00:08:57] Cara: You can do one. But to think about two brand new babies, [00:09:00] especially having a bit of a background in adult care, I’m like, eh, A little scared and nervous.
[00:09:04] Ursula: So you’re a new wife, you are pregnant with twins, you’re five and a half months You’re bouncing countries, you’re moving. What was the first thing that was starting [00:09:15] to not feel like it was quite right?
[00:09:16] Ursula: Was everything great in the pregnancy?
[00:09:18] Cara: Everything was really good. Like my weight was good, the babies were healthy, they were growing. Had about 37 and a half weeks. The doctor said we got one baby that’s still growing well, but the other baby isn’t. [00:09:30] We didn’t know the sex of the babies. The doctor said I think we want to consider a C-section.
[00:09:35] Cara: ’cause the one baby’s upside down and the other baby’s not getting the nutrients. That’s fine. We booked about a week later for the C-section. They were hoping that the bottom baby [00:09:45] would flip, but the baby never ended up flipping. So it was C-section.
[00:09:49] Christine: Been there, done that for the same reason. Yeah.
[00:09:53] Christine: Believe it or not, C-section is one of the factors that contribute to the chance of having postpartum psychosis, oh, wow. [00:10:00] Later on I found out too, having multiples.
[00:10:02] Christine: Wow,
[00:10:03] Cara: okay. Is another factor that contributed possibly to me developing postpartum psychosis.
[00:10:08] Ursula: So how soon after you had the babies, did something start to change?
[00:10:14] Ursula: No, [00:10:15] it
[00:10:15] Cara: took a little bit, but I wanna just say that after I delivered the baby’s via a C-section, which was an amazing surprise ’cause out came my daughter, and then two and a half minutes later out came My son. So I have two beautiful babies that I got to hold. They wheeled me [00:10:30] into the recovery.
[00:10:31] Cara: And I started to hemorrhage. Oh gosh. Oh, they were really like, I could see, even see the nurse’s face she was just like shocked because all of a sudden they lost a lot of blood. And they’re saying to me, oh, we gotta her get her back to the surgery. She’s gonna probably [00:10:45] need blood. She losing a lot of blood.
[00:10:46] Cara: So then that’s oh gosh. I am a nurse now. I wasn’t then, so I was just pretty scared.
[00:10:51] Christine: Does that happen often? Like even with a C-section? Because you would think through natural childbirth
[00:10:57] Cara: it was a piece of the placenta, something that was still [00:11:00] attached to my uterine linings. Oh gosh.
[00:11:02] Cara: So they’re need to get that out. So the nurse actually was able to palpate hard enough or well enough in the area that it came out before I had to go back to surgery. So that’s a blessing, but it was still scary for sure.
[00:11:14] Christine: I [00:11:15] can imagine.
[00:11:15] Cara: So another thing that happened is the babies weren’t breathing properly on their own.
[00:11:18] Cara: They sounded like little kittens and I thought it was cute, but they immediately flagged it and said they’ve gotta go to the NICU. Okay. Was another kind of like situation I wasn’t expecting, I had my pain [00:11:30] medication, like the IV line in. That was another thing I really didn’t like, it sounds so simple.
[00:11:34] Cara: Yeah. But having that IV line in bothered me. So we ended up being in the hospital for like about six days. They brought the babies into my room about three days [00:11:45] after they were in the NICU. and I wasn’t able to sleep because I didn’t really know what I was doing. And I had two babies that were, I was trying to breastfeed and I didn’t know that your milk doesn’t come right away through you have a [00:12:00] baby.
[00:12:00] Christine: This thing that everybody says is so natural. And by the way, just for our listeners, when you mention nicu, I’ll just mention that it’s neonatal intensive care unit for those who might not be familiar with that.
[00:12:12] Cara: Yes. So I ended up having the babies in a room [00:12:15] with me. It was the room we had by myself.
[00:12:17] Cara: It was a big room, but you weren’t allowed to have anyone stay with you. So I’m. Cut open, trying to heal from everything that happened there. And I have two babies in the room with me. Both of them aren’t latching on. I’m not getting any sleep at all.
[00:12:29] Christine: And [00:12:30] how big are they? Just outta curiosity.
[00:12:31] Cara: We have a 5.6 pound girl and we have a five pound boy.
[00:12:36] Christine: Wow.
[00:12:37] Cara: The nurses are busy, I can tell. But I just at one point said, Hey, I haven’t had any sleep. I haven’t even had an hour sleep. [00:12:45] Could I please just get help for an hour? And they just said, sorry, our nurses are all busy. You’re gonna have to figure this out yourself.
[00:12:52] Cara: Welcome to motherhood. And I remember just thinking, oh God, like this is tough. Ouch. Yeah.
[00:12:57] Ursula: Yeah, definitely. Tough answer. You needed the [00:13:00] courage to ask. Yeah. And it feels shut down. That’s not helpful. In that Moment.
[00:13:04] Cara: Yeah, for sure. We progressed and went home and I was sore and stuff, but we hobbled along.
[00:13:09] Cara: My husband’s parents came and especially my mother-in-law was amazing help. She had a little basket by the [00:13:15] rocker and she was with me the whole time trying to get these babies to feed big advocacy out in Scotland at the time about breast is best. Formula is bad. You need to. Do it natural. A lot of pressure on a mom.
[00:13:26] Christine: Yeah. A lot of guilty feelings.
[00:13:28] Cara: The babies are hungry and screaming [00:13:30] for food. So anyway, that was pressure for sure. And getting measurements done every few days to see how the kids were growing. Realizing Callum was going in the opposite direction.
[00:13:40] Cara: He wasn’t gaining. More pressure. Caitlyn ended up developing something called Nipple Fear. [00:13:45] Talking to people on the phone trying to figure out how to get this baby to latch, who’s scared of my nipple.
[00:13:49] Ursula: Yeah.
[00:13:50] Cara: Granted it was the size of an Oreo cookie, but still.
[00:13:53] Ursula: That’s a lot to deal with.
[00:13:54]
[00:13:54] Cara: And have the nurses saying you need to help feed them every two hours. Yeah. No matter what.
[00:13:59] Christine: Oh, [00:14:00] and did they have over their lactation consultants or not? Is that something?
[00:14:04] Cara: They did, I had one come into the room and she had me milking one breast and my husband milking the other. He’s never looked at my breasts the same, but, trying to get that milk . [00:14:15] Yeah. And I think the stress and no sleep the milk was coming yeah. For sure. Yeah.
[00:14:20] Ursula: That’s a lot of pressure . This is, you’re at home, you’re trying to manage with the children. You’re trying to make sure they’re growing and feeding, you’re obviously getting worried ’cause [00:14:30] you’re getting information that they’re not.
[00:14:32] Ursula: Yeah. What happened next?
[00:14:33] Cara: On pain medication too as well . And just kinda starting to feel really overwhelmed. I remember my mom said, I kept saying, this isn’t what I thought it was gonna be, mom. Why didn’t you tell me? She’s, I never had twins. And she was just so [00:14:45] excited and I’m like, this is.
[00:14:46] Cara: In my head, this is frigging hard. How can I do this? And my husband had to go back to work. He had weeks off. So he’s back at work and I’m, my in-laws are there, but it’s my mother-in-law that’s helping. And then my father-in-law, he’s yiping in the corner about [00:15:00] whatever, it’s definitely her that’s supporting me at that time.
[00:15:02] Ursula: So what was the first symptom? And someone’s we need to get care to the hospital.
[00:15:06] Cara: It wasn’t anybody except myself. Wow. To say that everybody thought I was doing frigging awesome. They’re like , Wow. She’s got her breastfeeding pillow. Those [00:15:15] babies are feeding. She’s up regularly feeding these babies all night.
[00:15:20] Cara: My husband would try to help, but he’s gotta get to work.
[00:15:23] Cara: Kurt’s parents left to go back to Canada and my mom. Came in and by that time I’m already [00:15:30] starting to get a bit worn down. Yeah. Because I’m not sleeping much and so forth. It’s not looking good for me. And I said, I feel like there’s something wrong.
[00:15:37] Cara: And mom’s what’s going on? And I’m like, I don’t know. But I just feel like. Like anxious. It’s not like an anxiety I’ve ever [00:15:45] felt before and I just think something’s wrong and I think I need help. So we went to a doctor and it was the doctor that was dealing with me in that area in Scotland.
[00:15:56] Cara: And basically I went in there and he’s this is what motherhood is. You are [00:16:00] gonna lack sleep. You’re gonna, you’ll get through. It’s, this is what motherhood is. I’m like, the thing is there’s something more . There’s stuff going wrong . Yeah. He’s no, this is what it is.
[00:16:09] Cara: So we kept going, finding our way, so I’m at about five weeks right now. [00:16:15] Things are still like building inside me and I’m feeling more and more anxious. And I’m starting not even to be able to get a half an hour sleep when I can sleep. My mind’s not shutting off.
[00:16:24] Cara: And then I remember going to the computer and I remember typing [00:16:30] a note to my dad and a few other people, and it took me like an hour to simply type, I need help. Somebody help me.
[00:16:38] Christine: Wow. Yeah.
[00:16:39] Cara: Sorry, that a, that upsetting. But anyway, that happened and still, keep [00:16:45] going.
[00:16:45] Cara: And then I finally said to my husband again, something’s still not right. I’m not feeling any better and it’s harder. And so we went to another doctor and guess what I got? I got another, this is what it’s like to be a mom. Yeah. This what it’s, yeah. Like you’re gonna feel overwhelmed and [00:17:00] stuff.
[00:17:00] Cara: That’s what being a new mom’s all about. Yeah. And I’m like, oh, I don’t know, like how I can keep doing this.
[00:17:05] Cara: And he just basically this is what it is. So anyway, probably, I don’t know, like I was between five and six weeks it was. Which is pretty late. Yeah. If you haven’t had postpartum [00:17:15] psychosis by like week five, you’re probably not gonna get it.
[00:17:17] Cara: I’m right in that verge and I reached out to a woman that was in my baby group and I just said to her, I need help. Something’s wrong. So she came and picked me up. And took me to her [00:17:30] house and she said, what exactly is happening? And I said, I don’t know, but I’m really struggling. I feel like I’m gonna die.
[00:17:36] Cara: And then I hit the ground. So I started passing out. Wow. Yeah. So I fainting. And so she got nervous right away and she [00:17:45] phoned a nurse that was to do with our baby group. And she started to relay the symptoms I was having and stuff. Yeah. And that lady said. She’s got, it’s not called postpartum psychosis.
[00:17:55] Cara: You call it postpartum perla. It’s another word, but it is [00:18:00] postpartum psychosis. She needs help. Now. The lady that I was with brought me back to the house where I was living with my mom and husband and the two kids. Yeah. And she said she needs help now. We need to get her help. And then she kinda left.[00:18:15]
[00:18:15] Cara: During that time I fainted a couple more times. Wow. They’re like, what the hell is going on? So they called 9 1 1. It’s different there at some other number they came and the ambulance guy came in and he came up the stairs where I was hiding in the [00:18:30] bathroom. I was trying to pull my grandma who was sick.
[00:18:33] Cara: Oh. And I was trying, now this is where my mind’s starting to work a little slur. I wanted her to answer the phone so I could tell her it’s okay for her to die now of [00:18:45] cancer. Because then I can live. Yeah. So it was getting twisted . I was getting sick.
[00:18:50] Ursula: There’s confusion.
[00:18:51] Ursula: Processing as best you can. But it, you would know for a long time something was wrong. And now, you got recognition from someone who needs to go in.
[00:18:58]
[00:18:59] Cara: Though the [00:19:00] ambulance driver calls the Aberdeen hospital and says, I have a woman here. She needs help now. We need to bring her. And they said, we don’t have space for her in our psychiatric unit.
[00:19:11] Cara: And he says, I am not leaving this woman advocated for me right [00:19:15] there. I remember them putting me in a wheelchair. It was a different wheelchair. I don’t really understand. It was really small. They zipped me in. Wow. Like a double strap across and they wheeled me up a ramp into the back of the ambulance.
[00:19:27] Cara: And I remember thinking right then. [00:19:30] I had them and it’s sad that I’m already gonna lose them because like nothing, I wanted more than them and it was just not really there.
[00:19:39] Cara: Felt like it was being taken away from you. Yeah. And you didn’t know what was gonna happen.
[00:19:42] Christine: Yes, exactly. So [00:19:45] Cara, the physicians that you went and consulted, were they general practitioners?
[00:19:50] Cara: The first one, I don’t. Think was because he was all about the blood for being pregnant and the blood, and everything to do with babies [00:20:00] and because was a it was multiples. I was watched even closer because there’s so many more complications with multiples.
[00:20:08] Christine: So what I’m trying to get at is okay, so maybe that was an OB GYN and then another one was a gp.
[00:20:14] Christine: It [00:20:15] could, yeah. And then at the end of the day, this is an in incredible story. I feel all your pain and your emotion, and the other part of me is trying to understand, oh my God. Like how come nobody could clue into what was happening, but yet [00:20:30] somebody who’s in an ambulance, like a paramedic, could see it, but yet physicians could not.
[00:20:36] Cara: Yeah. Don’t know if they even knew it was psychosis still. They just thought, okay, this lady’s having nervous breakdown.
[00:20:42] Christine: True. But then they contacted [00:20:45] the psychiatric ward of the hospital, so clearly that paramedic understood. For sure.
[00:20:51] Ursula: Yeah.
[00:20:52] Ursula: Is this as bad as it gets when you’re heading off in that ambulance?
[00:20:56] Cara: Because I escaped [00:21:00] into the assessment room in the psychiatric hospital.. but it was the Psychiatric unit. And right in the main area, they’re like, let’s just get some blood pressure. And I am like, no. And they’re like pardon. I’m like, I’m not comfortable with that.
[00:21:14] Cara: And they’re like, [00:21:15] whoa. What is this going on here? And remember, I’m like postpartum with a, like a weird belly now because I’ve had two big babies come out, so I’m still healing C-section pajamas on one and two knitted slippers. My grandmother had knitted for me. Like I’ve [00:21:30] probably looked like not so hot and just aren’t gonna get a blood pressure.
[00:21:34] Cara: Between them putting on the cuff, my husband’s standing beside me and between putting on the cuff and him talking about something. Yeah, the cuff is [00:21:45] off
[00:21:45] Ursula: and you’re gone.
[00:21:45] Cara: It’s thrown and I’m out the door running. You went across the field, didn’t you? I went across the field. I climbed, steel fence that had like points at the top.
[00:21:55] Cara: Yep. Oh boy. My husband caught me. I punched him. He kicked him, hit [00:22:00] him.
[00:22:00] Ursula: You were running away. You know I Do you know why you were running in that?
[00:22:02] Cara: I just needed to be free and I was scared. And I took his glasses and I flung him. No, he’s blind as bat as well. And then I jumped in front of a car.
[00:22:10] Christine: Oh my goodness. Just
[00:22:10] Cara: being so trying to get away. And I get back. So the car [00:22:15] stops, the guy rolls down the window. He’s got a woman on the passenger side and he says, are you okay? What’s going on? And I said, I need to get home to my babies. Please take me to my babies. He’s yeah, what the hell? Next?
[00:22:26] Cara: There’s the police car.
[00:22:27] Christine: Okay.
[00:22:28] Cara: And there’s the patrol unit behind [00:22:30] that and they wanna take me back to the hospital. And I said I’ll go, but not if he comes with me. I point at my husband, so I got the police car, they took me back. My husband ended up in the patrol car. He’s allergic to dogs. So that didn’t go over too well and I was put back [00:22:45] in and I was on 24 hour assessment.
[00:22:47] Cara: I had a person outside the bars. The whole time. And they were watching me closely.
[00:22:51] Ursula: Wow. What did Kurt say to you, looking back at this time? He must have, after the fact shared with you in that moment, his fears, how scared [00:23:00] he was, what it was like for him. Is that a conversation you guys had down the road?
[00:23:04] Cara: We’ve had them through the years a lot. He said he had no idea. And he’s very much of it was just a chemical thing. It’s just a chemical thing. And I’m like, yeah, I know, but it’s still, it was shit. [00:23:15] Yeah. Yeah. And my mom often said, ’cause at one point it ended up they were staying in a hotel outside the hospital that I ended up at.
[00:23:23] Cara: And she said she could hear him sobbing to sleep almost every night.
[00:23:27] Christine: Oh my goodness
[00:23:28] Cara: is Mr. Stoic,
[00:23:29] Christine: He must have [00:23:30] been so scared as well.
[00:23:31] Cara: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:23:32] Christine: And in the meantime, who’s taking care of the twins?
[00:23:34] Cara: Yeah. So my mom’s at the house with two babies that have never taken a bottle.
[00:23:39] Christine: Wow. Oh my goodness.
[00:23:41] Cara: So I think she’s mentioned it’s the hardest and worst time of her [00:23:45] life as well.
[00:23:45] Ursula: So you have a mom who loves you, husband loves you. They’re scared ’cause they don’t know what’s happening. Yeah. Don’t necessarily know. You can’t trust your own thoughts. You just know I need to get out of here. You’re on 24 7 assessment.
[00:23:58] Ursula: What happened then?
[00:23:59] Cara: So [00:24:00] first of all, I want you to know that I was really angry and mad towards my mom and my husband. They are bickering a bit between who was to get up at night with the babies with me, and in my head I’m like, I have to freaking get up every time, day or night.
[00:24:13] Cara: Yeah. So suck it up and funny. You [00:24:15] guys need to help me so I’m building up anger towards them. Not rational and Sure. But I was. And then being in the lockdown, it really was like a jail cell with a little toilet in there. I don’t remember a lot, but I do remember yelling between two [00:24:30] bars. Get me outta here.
[00:24:31] Cara: These people are weird and they’re all messed up. I’m the only one in there on 48 hour watch, 24 hour watch, but I’m talking about these people. And you remember saying that or is it what I can remember parts? Yeah, for sure. [00:24:45] I remember if I just act normal, they’ll let me out. So I saw a little book on the stand beside me and I kept pretending to read it.
[00:24:53] Cara: I couldn’t read if my life depended on it. My mind was going a million miles an hour. And then [00:25:00] next thing you know I am told that a facility has opened up it’s a new project that they’ve done in Livingston, Scotland. It’s a mother baby unit. And I can either stay here and do the psychiatric ward.
[00:25:14] Cara: Or I [00:25:15] can, take this three hour trip and go to Livingston where they have a facility made just for moms. And babies. To heal and get better . That is where I went. Thank God.
[00:25:26] Ursula: How long before you, feel better at this facility,
[00:25:29] Cara: this mother [00:25:30] baby unit I was in, there was like doctors specifically.
[00:25:34] Cara: Geared to me. And it took about five weeks total before I was allowed out of the facility. It was three days bedrest. They didn’t know exactly what was going on or what caused it. [00:25:45] Started medication. And first round of medication was the opposite of what it should do. I got extremely violent.
[00:25:51] Christine: Oh.
[00:25:51] Cara: They thought that they were gonna have to. Boot me outta the mother baby unit and put me in like this. But the babies were so well cared for. There [00:26:00] was loving caregivers that were right there, but I was just kinda watched and gradually implemented back into the lives of my children while being taught how to do it.
[00:26:09] Ursula: If you could go back today and talk to those caregivers and the healthcare staff that was there, [00:26:15] what
[00:26:15] Cara: would you wanna say to them? I think main thing is thank you. Thank you for not only loving my babies, like as good as I probably ever could have, but for teaching me and empowering me and. Just being patient with me, teaching me and listening to me.
[00:26:29] Cara: I remember one [00:26:30] time I said, oh, I’m really starting to feel panicky. Yeah. And right away the lady’s oh, come with me. She took me to the back room. She’s okay, I’m gonna give you this. It’s gonna make you feel better. And yeah. It did. They listened. They really did a lot of discussions with my [00:26:45] mom and Curtis, and I don’t have capacity at this time.
[00:26:48] Cara: Yeah. It’s been given to my dad. And I asked for that. They were gonna give it to my husband, but remember I didn’t like my mom or my husband, so it went to my dad who’d flown up, and he was there as well. So I had a real good [00:27:00] foundation of my mom, my dad, my husband, all there.
[00:27:02] Ursula: so you were there
[00:27:03] Ursula: for about
[00:27:03] Ursula: five weeks?
[00:27:04] Ursula: Yeah. Before they said, okay, now you’re going home. What do you remember about the day you were going home? To what was going through your mind?
[00:27:10] Cara: I think in until a year after I’d actually even moved back to [00:27:15] Canada, I was always scared of relapse or scared, something to trigger that again.
[00:27:19] Cara: So it was, it took a long time to realize that I am okay and I have resources and I have ability to reach out. I have [00:27:30] knowledge on what I have gone through. There are different stages of postpartum psychosis. I was the worst they’d ever seen.
[00:27:35] Ursula: Wow.
[00:27:35] Cara: Yeah. They felt holy crap, how do I deal with this? And that center had just opened.
[00:27:39] Cara: So they weren’t used to this. They were used to depression. They were used to [00:27:45] anxiety. But they weren’t. Use to what I was bringing into that facility, and I think it was an eyeopener for all of them as well. After I left, we sent them a rocking chair because I don’t know how many hours I would walk by and they would be rocking one of my babies, they were [00:28:00] really taken care of. Yeah.
[00:28:01] Ursula: Yeah. It’s very lucky that facility was there with the special trained people to help at the right time. And arguably I can hear in your voice there you might have needed it earlier. Yeah. But symptoms were changing perhaps, and it wasn’t picked up, but [00:28:15] it was there when you really needed it and it changed your life.
[00:28:17] Ursula: Cara for sure made a difference for sure.
[00:28:20] Christine: And so you said you were there for five weeks, is that it? I got
[00:28:23] Cara: five weeks in the hospital before I was released.
[00:28:25] Christine: And then you went. The three hours back home.
[00:28:28] Cara: Yeah. And my husband was traveling back [00:28:30] and forth every couple days.
[00:28:31] Christine: Exactly. So that must have been difficult.
[00:28:33] Cara: Yeah. So he was doing a lot of miles. My mom and dad stayed in Livingston in a kind of a creepy hotel, but whatever. They were close and whenever they were needed by the hospital, they would come. They said, we wanna do this with Cara, or Cara’s [00:28:45] gonna bath the babies today. At first. We’d need a standby assist.
[00:28:48] Cara: So my dad would be there with his sleeves rolled up, but eventually it’s Cara’s doing it on her own. And I’m very lucky that I wasn’t angry with my babies, because that’s when things get really scary. Yeah. I’m [00:29:00] my anger was towards my mom and my husband because I think they really put warnings out about postpartum psychosis, how dangerous it is.
[00:29:06] Christine: So the danger that you’re talking about, and you made reference to it earlier, is a danger to yourself or a danger to the babies, [00:29:15] or both?
[00:29:15] Cara: Both. Both, for sure . When I had one, I remember little bits about it. I had a real physical altercation when I first went in there after my bed rest, and they. Got me sleeping well and not again, but before they got the meds really keyed in, [00:29:30] I had a full out like physical altercation with about five nurses.
[00:29:34] Cara: Wow. And healthcare aids, they ended up pinning me down and I remember getting a needle in the thigh.
[00:29:39] Christine: Yeah.
[00:29:40] Cara: And I remember blackness and it was,
[00:29:42] Christine: wow.
[00:29:42] Cara: So just, and just to think if I was, [00:29:45] I hate to wor use the word unhinged, but if I was that unhinged, imagine if my mind was working that way.
[00:29:50] Cara: What I could have done to my babies if I was. Pissed off for sure. Or angry.
[00:29:53] Christine: And so when you went back home, I can imagine it was a mix of happy to leave and go home, yet [00:30:00] a lot of fear, like you said, of possibly relapse or how am I gonna do this without the help kind of thing. Yeah,
[00:30:05] Cara: but they really believed in me, they believed that I was getting better and they believed that I would be okay. And their belief actually made me believe that, I am gonna get through this [00:30:15] and I am gonna be okay.
[00:30:16] Cara: Thank God.
[00:30:17] Ursula: Yeah. What would you like to share with people that you wished they knew that they might have a friend or a family member going through this themselves?
[00:30:24] Ursula: Is there something that you would advise them to be aware of? I heard you describe today just that [00:30:30] support is so important and just encouragement to know what’s going to go better. Is there anything else that you would have out there for advice for people listening in if they see or come across somebody going through this?
[00:30:42] Cara: I think for me. The main [00:30:45] thing is the judgment that might come by not understanding that often, especially with postpartum psychosis, it is a blip. Like it usually doesn’t last forever for most people. So just because I was in the state, I [00:31:00] was then, that’s not who I am normally. It totally was just a chemical.
[00:31:07] Christine: Yeah.
[00:31:08] Cara: Thing maybe in my brain that didn’t connect chemicals properly, but it’s not a fault. I’m still [00:31:15] a good person. I’m still, but it was a scary, dark, dangerous time, and I’m so thankful that eventually I got to the resources that I needed. Delayed, but I still got there. And what did
[00:31:26] Ursula: feeling better look like?
[00:31:27] Ursula: You described this gut feeling. You [00:31:30] knew something was wrong. Did a gut feeling come back to know something was right? Yeah. To say I’m better. Is that how you knew that you were feeling better? Yeah.
[00:31:36] Cara: So I was on some pretty heavy medications for a long time after my psychosis. And I was on medications as a heavy hitter for a full year [00:31:45] after I got home.
[00:31:45] Cara: And the one doctor just recommended that just till I really got stable and felt stronger. So I remember driving with my husband and I was off medications for him then, and I said something which was typical of the Cara before the [00:32:00] whole situation happened. And he said, oh, the way you’re talking, I think we need to take you back to the hospital.
[00:32:06] Cara: And I said. No, Kurt, I don’t need the hospital. I said I’m advocating for myself. Yeah. And that’s okay. And I’m like, damn. Like I am [00:32:15] advocating for myself and this is okay and it’s okay to feel a little scared or anxious or whatever. Once in a while. That doesn’t mean I’m automatically back where I was 18 years ago.
[00:32:24] Christine: Yeah, that I can imagine it. Clearly you experienced the trauma of going through this [00:32:30] postpartum psychosis. I can imagine, for your parents and your husband. It was a. Probably a trauma as well, but in a different kind. And I can see how, he would start to see, I call it the boogeyman, the slightest thing, including those [00:32:45] moments that are absolutely 100% normal that we all go through.
[00:32:49] Christine: And so being able to make that distinction between what’s different about this here, that’s not exactly like when she was at psychosis. It’s you gotta remind yourself of [00:33:00] that.
[00:33:00] Ursula: Exactly.
[00:33:00] Christine: I can understand that perspective as well. Yeah,
[00:33:03] Ursula: Sure. What gives you the confidence, Cara, to have that deep gut feeling to say, I know I’m okay now.
[00:33:08] Ursula: What does that look like? And are there times you still, your mind gets worried? What if I go there again? Or you [00:33:15] feel like I’m okay now?
[00:33:16] Cara: Yeah. I’m no longer at the, like I never think I’m gonna go through psychosis again. Yeah. You know what? I might have a bit of anxiety here and there that I have to stop, adjust.
[00:33:24] Cara: Yeah. Maybe get a little bit of one-on-one therapy for. Or maybe need to stop doing something [00:33:30] that’s not making my life a good, healthy place. But I think the beauty of postpartum psychosis, which I never thought that beauty and psychosis could ever go anywhere together, Uhhuh, but it is that I have [00:33:45] become somebody that is so vastly different than the person before in terms of inner strength.
[00:33:52] Cara: Like care for others and empathy. And I also just feel I’ve become more of a person than I ever [00:34:00] imagined. I never thought I’d become a nurse. I never thought I would be, somebody that’s involved with so many different aspects of helping people. I go when I volunteer at Children’s Cottage and I rock babies and I.
[00:34:11] Cara: Close for them, or I do whatever. You grow and you become [00:34:15] even better than you ever imagined.
[00:34:16] Christine: And I would imagine that you probably know yourself now a lot more than you ever did before.
[00:34:22] Cara: Sure. And I didn’t really have a choice. Thank goodness I was able to learn more.
[00:34:27] Christine: How old are the twins now? I’m just curious.
[00:34:29] Cara: They are [00:34:30] 18 and they are fun, feisty, and great kids.
[00:34:34] Christine: So you’re almost out of the teen year. I know. Unbelievable. I’m doing it. I was thinking, oh Yi. I hope those years are behind you. [00:34:45]
[00:34:46] Ursula: Yeah, that’s gonna be another podcast. At what does that look like?
[00:34:49] Ursula: Cara, I wanna say thank you for your sincerity and your willingness to share a really tough story. Yeah. And I know this got emotional for both of us . I’ve seen you over the years with a source of [00:35:00] strength and peace, and I think that resiliency that you learned as a young student moving around is what helped build you to the strength to get through this situation.
[00:35:09] Ursula: Yeah. Which I think is really incredible and so important and the hope of what. [00:35:15] One day that’s not a good thing. Doesn’t need to be living forever us for a long time. It doesn’t need to be forever. Christine, I certainly have had a lot of thinking differently about postpartum psychosis. I wonder if you have some final thoughts you’d like to share as well.
[00:35:28] Christine: You had me in the [00:35:30] first few words because you said there’s a link between postpartum psychosis and C-sections, and I had two of them. That’s something that I never knew in a way. I’m maybe glad I didn’t, but but on the other hand, my question to you is, [00:35:45] especially now that you’re a nurse, what would you say to people?
[00:35:48] Christine: Like, where’s that cutoff point between? Yeah. It is hard being a mom, and I can only imagine how hard it is when you have twins. It’s hard enough when you only have the one, when you have two. And yes, you’re [00:36:00] constantly nursing, constantly changing diapers. Somehow in all of this you gotta. Feed yourself and bathe and take care of yourself.
[00:36:07] Christine: So that’s super difficult. You’re sleep deprived. How do people see that shift from, you’re just [00:36:15] really run down to, oh, hold on for a second. We need to get her the help that she needs. You were asking for it,
[00:36:22] Cara: asking , And a lot of people probably wouldn’t. I just think when it gets to the point where they feel like they can’t do this [00:36:30] anymore, like they cannot do it on their own, and that’s what I was saying, like this is like rocking my world, like I am not doing well.
[00:36:40] Cara: But they all just said, oh no, you’re doing good. I just was like, what are you [00:36:45] saying? You don’t know what I’m feeling. Yeah, just probably really it’d be, sorry, healthcare system’s overwhelmed. I know that. You just gotta listen
[00:36:54] Christine: but I think part of it is just education too, right?
[00:36:57] Christine: People need to know more about that. You [00:37:00] go through all these prenatal classes that keep talking about the delivery, like the, and quite frankly I had two C-sections. I never went into labor, right? So I took all these classes, spent all that time talking about that, but yet they [00:37:15] don’t tell you anything about.
[00:37:16] Christine: The, this other stuff. Oh, by the way, you know if you see these signs for either postpartum depression or postpartum psychosis, that’s important to know upfront too, right? In those prenatal classes, I think it [00:37:30] would be important to educate people because if everybody is educated a little bit more aware, then they might have been a little bit more in tune with the fact that you had gone past that threshold
[00:37:41] Cara: beyond where it was safe anymore.
[00:37:43] Christine: Exactly.
[00:37:44] Ursula: [00:37:45] For sure. I’ve certainly heard a lot today about how important it’s to self advocate and listening to your gut feeling when they Yes. Something is wrong and it’s a terrible feeling. ’cause you know something is wrong and other people are not listening to you in that moment and it doesn’t feel [00:38:00] very good ’cause.
[00:38:01] Ursula: But I applaud you for the courage you kept going, and even that email that you said took a long time to type and you continued reaching out for help to get the help, and you came out the other side to have a beautiful family, two wonderful children, [00:38:15] and the courage to be a nurse and help other people.
[00:38:19] Ursula: And I know the volunteer work you do and I know the work that you do on a day-to-day basis and it’s very motivating and uplifting to be helping other people. On the fun note, amidst all of that, you still need to get [00:38:30] time for you. And I know one of the fun ways that you like to unwind is with baths, so I’m a little curious.
[00:38:35] Ursula: Best bath bomb. What advice do you have for people? What else do you throw in your bath?
[00:38:39] Cara: I love anything that’s like eucalyptus or I love lavender. Like at night be, I was gonna [00:38:45] say that. I was gonna say that lavender is a beautiful thing.
[00:38:48] Christine: Oh my God. I’m not a betting person. But just before you said, I said, I bet you she’s gonna say lavender.
[00:38:55] Cara: I love that. And bathing is like I, a lot of people I go, it’s gross, but like I shower in the morning [00:39:00] and at night if I’m having a rough day, I am in that bath and I am having a wonderful little nappy nap just laying there in the dark. I love it.
[00:39:10] Ursula: It’s important to take those moments here yourself.
[00:39:12] Ursula: Definitely unwind and absolutely [00:39:15] enjoy this precious times . So Cara. I wanna say thank you again for sharing. Thank you so much. That was amazing. This is quite a situation to even be bouncing countries. Yeah. Navigating that along with culture and other situations.
[00:39:29] Ursula: But healthcare [00:39:30] systems are doing a good thing when they wanna hear from people that are experiencing it, and it’s by listening and working together that will able to move. Better. So thank you for your time saying given us a lot. Thank you.
[00:39:40] Ursula: No, I’m happy to be part of it.[00:39:45]
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