Listening as a Leadership Superpower: A Conversation with Brigitte Nolet (Roche Canada)

Transcript 

Episode 6 for cleaning2

[00:00:00] Ursula: Welcome to Amplify Elevating Patient Voices, a podcast powered by patient voice partners, where real stories spark bold conversations. I’m Ursula Mann. 

[00:00:13] Brent: And I’m Brent Korte. [00:00:15] Together we’re talking with patients, caregivers, and the healthcare change makers who are listening and taking action. 

[00:00:23] Ursula: From personal journeys to policy shifts, these are the voices shaping a healthcare system that listens.[00:00:30] 

[00:00:34] Ursula: Good morning, Anne Marie. It’s so exciting to join you for another episode of Amplify Today. I’m really excited about today’s guest. I’m sure you are as well. Absolutely. What makes you 

[00:00:44] Anne Marie: most 

[00:00:44] Anne Marie: [00:00:45] excited 

[00:00:45] Anne Marie: about this morning? 

[00:00:46] Ursula: Well, honestly, the unique leadership style that Bridget brings forward is just so incredible and it’s impressive and bedazzling as to the wave she’s creating in the industry.

[00:00:56] Ursula: When we talk at Amplify about having change makers on the show, [00:01:00] she’s certainly one that comes to mind. Some incredible things are happening, but by way of background, for some people that might not know her. Brigitte Nolet is the president and CEO for Roche Canada, responsible for the growth and success of the Canadian Pharmaceuticals Division, as well as a diverse [00:01:15] team of nearly 2000 employees across six different areas of Roche’s business.

[00:01:19] Ursula: Now leading into this important role, she held a number of progressive leadership roles, as well as working with patient groups globally, and significant external focus on key communities. [00:01:30] In 2023, she was elected as the chair of the Board of Directors of Innovative Medicines Canada, where she works alongside innovative member companies to champion policies that drive discovery, development, and develop of transformation, medicines and vaccines to [00:01:45] Canadians and to support more resilient health systems.

[00:01:48] Ursula: She’s worked globally as well and has experience from outside of Canada, which we’re gonna talk about today. And before joining Roche, Brigitte worked at various parts of the government as well, [00:02:00] including serving on two federal election campaigns at the time with Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chen during the 2000 federal election.

[00:02:08] Ursula: We’re excited to talk to Brigitte today, and let’s dive right in.

[00:02:11] Anne Marie: Thank you, Ursula. I’ve actually had the privilege of working with, [00:02:15] Brigitte for over 20 years. I think now we’ve worked as peers. I’ve worked under her leadership at Roche Canada. So welcome Brigitte. It’s wonderful to have you here today. Appreciate you taking the time.

[00:02:27] Brigitte: Thank you very much. Thank you for the invitation. And it’s a [00:02:30] pleasure to be with you and quite frankly, Emory, it was my pleasure to be able to work with you and to learn from you all those years. So I’m really excited to have this conversation today. 

[00:02:38] Anne Marie: Thank you, Brigitte. So I’d like to kick off, if I one of the things Ursula asked me as we prepared for this interview today was [00:02:45] what words come to mind when you think about Brigitte as a leader?

[00:02:48] Anne Marie: And for me, the three words that came. To mind most profoundly were authentic, courageous, and pragmatic. And I feel having known you for many years, this [00:03:00] unique approach you have to your leadership style and the way you set priorities, I think has been informed through many things.

[00:03:07] Anne Marie: It’s not just your professional career, but some of your personal experiences as well. Can you maybe just share with our audience a little bit about. That [00:03:15] journey, bringing together your professional personal experiences and how that’s informed how you lead. 

[00:03:20] Brigitte: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you again for the question.

[00:03:24] Brigitte: So I have the privilege right now of leading Roche Canada and I lead the [00:03:30] overarching global site here in Mississauga. And I’m also responsible for the pharmaceuticals division here in Canada. And as you may know, or your listeners. May not know, but Roche is one of the largest biotech companies in the world, and we have this unique combination of strengths [00:03:45] between having a pharmaceutical division and a diagnostics division.

[00:03:48] Brigitte: So we can really look at healthcare from a holistic perspective. And we’re very, proud in Canada and in Mississauga and lava to have this global presence that [00:04:00] comes together supporting Canadian patients across the country, but also supporting patients around the world. We are roughly 2000 employees here in Canada.

[00:04:08] Brigitte: Really working end to end from research, through to diagnostics, through to commercialization, and [00:04:15] really making sure that we have our diagnostics and our medicines available to patients around the world. And I suppose Anne-Marie, where I come to work is from a very personal perspective, right?

[00:04:26] Brigitte: Out of those 2000 people, I am sure every single one of us [00:04:30] wake up every day extremely passionate about the work that we want to do and what we need to accomplish altogether. And I know that I wake up. Every day wanting to make things better for people across Canada and around the world. And I suppose I came from a place where [00:04:45] my own disease is what informs how I come to work every day.

[00:04:48] Brigitte: I was roughly 25 years old when I was diagnosed with a chronic disease with psoriatic arthritis. It’s one of those experiences where you wake up one morning and you’re, one [00:05:00] thing, in my case it was an index finger is sore and you’re thinking to yourself, Ooh, that’s really sore. Maybe I was bit by a spider over and I’m not sure it’s really sore.

[00:05:07] Brigitte: And then from there, it moves from your index finger to your wrist, and then it moves from your wrist to other places. And of course, in [00:05:15] Canada in my early, twenties, it was taking a long time to see rheumatologists, so I think it took me about six months before I could see a rheumatologist and I was just having, Tylenol to manage pain.

[00:05:27] Brigitte: And from there, I couldn’t really make fists, I couldn’t [00:05:30] write, there was a lot of pain developing and I was just almost relieved to have the diagnosis, if I’m honest and understand what was happening, and then start to intervene with medicines. And medicines have just been a part of my life [00:05:45] since then.

[00:05:45] Brigitte: And understanding how medicines can help make me and support me in being a more productive person. I went from about 42 pills a week in my early twenties to now and many decades later. But I’ve seen that evolution. Of [00:06:00] TNF inhibitors and other medicines come through the fold.

[00:06:03] Brigitte: I’ve seen how innovation has really made a difference for people. And I think my own experience, both in Canada, but also as you mentioned, having gone and lived in other countries, I’ve [00:06:15] had to experience healthcare systems quite upfront in four different countries and just being really, appreciative of how innovative medicines have allowed me to have a productive successful career, but also to have had a family [00:06:30] and, to be able to balance what’s right for my family as well. So yeah, I come to work maybe with that perspective in mind that lived experience of my own, which makes me really passionate about the work that has to get accomplished.[00:06:45] 

[00:06:45] Anne Marie: That’s really interesting to take that concept of understanding the role that innovative medicines has played in your own life to how you now bring those to market and think about what that means for people. I wanna pick up a little bit [00:07:00] on your international experience. ’cause I think again, having worked with you, I think that your international experience has really informed the way that you think about healthcare and leadership.

[00:07:11] Anne Marie: Let me ask you, what do you think Canada does really [00:07:15] well and then where do you think Canada might learn from other countries or jurisdictions? 

[00:07:22] Brigitte: Yeah. First of all, my international experiences have informed most definitely how I’ve seen different healthcare systems [00:07:30] evolve. Where I see technology play a really strong part where I see different stakeholder perspectives take a really important part where I think we’re quite strong in Canada from a patient inclusivity perspective is that we have [00:07:45] very thoughtful and active.

[00:07:47] Brigitte: Organizations in Canada who participate in external dialogue, who participate in government consultation, who have a point of view and aren’t afraid to share it. And we have many of those [00:08:00] organizations that work at the national level and that work at the provincial level. And I think it’s that combination of.

[00:08:07] Brigitte: Understanding. I think my government days, Anne-Marie, and how I understood the importance of external perspectives and voices and [00:08:15] consultations and then watching and learning from our different patient organizations across the country has really informed my early thinking, certainly when I went into my global roles and had the opportunity to work from that global.

[00:08:29] Brigitte: Policy [00:08:30] perspective and work with global patient organizations. Then I started to become much more aware of global health dynamics how different organizations like the World Health Organization or the World Bank take receive [00:08:45] information from different organizations, how we worked on broader global issues and how.

[00:08:50] Brigitte: Country organizations could give us insights and help us really formulate positions. So it really got more sophisticated as I went into my own [00:09:00] knowledge, got more sophisticated as I went into the global roles to appreciate what that started to look like. And certainly then going back into country. I worked in the UK and I worked in Belgium as was mentioned.

[00:09:11] Brigitte: And then I got to see how different, governments [00:09:15] worked. Those governments that were perhaps maybe more driven by the federal level and federal reimbursement and federal decision making versus Canada started to work itself out and really appreciate the differences there. So that’s probably a little bit more from that [00:09:30] global perspective and the different country perspectives that I’ve brought to the table, just how they all worked and intertwined and depending on the therapy area, of course, Anne Marie, you certainly get to learn a lot more in terms of where patient voices come from. [00:09:45] 

[00:09:45] Ursula: That’s fantastic. And what an interesting perspective to bring everything globally.

[00:09:50] Ursula: Things that you saw that were working well and things that you see that wanted to be changed. I recently saw a picture and it was a hospital room, an emergency room in Europe. [00:10:00] And it was empty and I was taken aback ’cause that’s certainly not the case in Canada. Having moved around to get that global experience we know that if you don’t take care of yourself first, everything stops if something goes awry, and it can be even more challenging when managing a chronic [00:10:15] condition.

[00:10:15] Ursula: How did you manage making sure, and were you ever worried when you’re moving to a new area as to how you’re gonna navigate and take care of that first? 

[00:10:24] Brigitte: Yeah, for sure. I would say it’s the first thing I worry about every time I have an international move, [00:10:30] including coming back to Canada, will, how will I find my general practitioner for me and for the family?

[00:10:36] Brigitte: And how will I find the specialists that I need to see and are my medications available in that country? And the reality is. [00:10:45] They are not always available in every country. As I go through my own journey and I do have to struggle to find the specialist, although I’ve been able to in every country, and I certainly do my research before moving and I get support from [00:11:00] the country that I’m leaving into the country that I’m going to because our physicians do network quite well globally.

[00:11:06] Brigitte: So I’ve been able to, but it is a worry and it is something that I’ve had to understand and determine, and I have to, I have had to [00:11:15] change medications because certain medications were not available in certain countries. So it is the reality what patients go through every day. I have gone through every day.

[00:11:23] Brigitte: And the stress of it is certainly something that should not be underappreciated for sure. [00:11:30] 

[00:11:30] Ursula: That’s very thoughtful. It’s stressful, but it’s also a lot of extra planning that and time and for thinking to make sure that happens. And even having to change meds versus thinking, okay, I’m gonna pack a whole bunch and take these with me.

[00:11:43] Ursula: That’s a consideration. [00:11:45] 

[00:11:45] Brigitte: It sure is. And even Ursula thinking about, there’s a benefit to it too. And different systems work really well together and you see how quickly though I get, different services and different support systems in different countries. So it isn’t all [00:12:00] chagrin. There was also a lot of learning.

[00:12:02] Brigitte: There was a lot of appreciating of different perspectives that I can give you an example in Switzerland, my rheumatology appointment. I enter the office and I do my blood work in that office right away. And that’s the [00:12:15] first thing that happened when I would enter that office and then I would wait to see the physician.

[00:12:19] Brigitte: And then within the physician appointment was at least a half an hour long, which is quite different than what we experience here. And within that timeframe, as my [00:12:30] joint assessment is taking place, the office administrator brings in the blood results to the physician and we have my blood results right there in that moment.

[00:12:38] Brigitte: And so that whole half hour is discussing my joint assessment as well as the blood work, as well as treatment options. [00:12:45] And so it’s a real fulsome perspective, so there was stress to get there for sure. And yet I got to experience this really fulsome perspective and this really fulsome appointment where I left it every day or every appointment really understanding where I was at with my [00:13:00] medication and with my disease.

[00:13:01] Brigitte: That’s the difference in terms of understanding what’s possible. Understanding how patient care is different and is possible. Different ways are possible. 

[00:13:11] Ursula: It’s a thoughtful approach. It’s a one and done to walk in and be able to get [00:13:15] everything done. It’s a good use of your time as well, which when you’re sitting with that patient hat staring at the wall wondering, oh boy, when am I gonna have to be, come back to know that you are gonna get everything walking out is it brings some comfort.

[00:13:27] Brigitte: Versus Belgium where it wasn’t that [00:13:30] way. Blood work and appointment was different, but I had the health data platforms where I was able to right away appreciate my blood work within days of it being done and understand it before I went into my appointment with my rheumatologist. Do you know what I mean?

[00:13:44] Brigitte: [00:13:45] It was simpler. The concept is the same, and yet what I experienced in Belgium was just a very fast health data system that would allow me to understand that. We could still have the fulsome conversation together. 

[00:13:57] Anne Marie: Yeah, that’s great. Brigitte, I wanna shift [00:14:00] focus a little bit from your leadership style and priorities to how you’re applying that in your role at Roche.

[00:14:06] Anne Marie: And I’m gonna pick up on the three words I used at the beginning of this interview. Authentic, courageous, and pragmatic. You just spoke [00:14:15] about how important it is for you and what you’ve learned is listening to the voices of. Many different stakeholders. I know that when you started, first started at Roche, one of the things that was very interesting to you was there was a patient co-creation [00:14:30] council that was in place, and I’ve watched you authentically listen.

[00:14:35] Anne Marie: What I think you do incredibly well is you listen and you don’t just listen for when these stakeholders tell you things you want to hear or you already believe, but when they [00:14:45] challenge what you’re thinking and believing or the way you’re doing things, and I’ve watched you make very interesting decisions, based on courageous decisions, based on, some of this kind of perspective that comes to you.

[00:14:57] Anne Marie: The question I’d like to ask you is a little bit about what [00:15:00] did you learn in those early days when you came back to Canada and you experienced the patient council? Then I’m gonna move into an interesting new role that you created. So maybe we’ll start with that first part of the journey for you.

[00:15:12] Brigitte: Yeah, for sure. First of [00:15:15] all, I’m gonna say this patient co-creation council was new for me, a new way to approach work, and I take absolutely no credit. And Anne-Marie Hayes and the team at the time should take all the credit in pulling that council together. What I did appreciate, and it’s [00:15:30] probably again, if we go back to my government days, the importance of our governments in Canada.

[00:15:35] Brigitte: You asked me before what they really do well. There is that whole consultation process. There is that openness to different perspectives. I learned it early on [00:15:45] in my twenties and early thirties as a political staffer to really understand what it means to get different perspectives and allow different perspectives to shape the right way forward.

[00:15:55] Brigitte: And so that I’ve always just kept with me in terms of my work, even in the private [00:16:00] sector, is we work with a lot of stakeholders. There are a lot of perspectives we need to take into account when we make decisions, especially decisions on medicines, and so how do we best listen and appreciate and make sure that we aren’t anchoring in our [00:16:15] own views too hard and allowing enough curiosity to appreciate other perspectives around the world and in.

[00:16:22] Brigitte: Whatever country that you’re in, and I certainly learned that in every country. I remember launching in hemophilia and spending so [00:16:30] much time trying to understand the different perspectives of a rare disease community because they all are so passionate about what they do and appreciating those insights is what allowed us to then.

[00:16:41] Brigitte: Work with different nurses and appreciate patient [00:16:45] perspectives and patient choice in medication, how important that is. And I brought that back into the listening exercise with the co-creation council, because what I think is really interesting about the co-creation council in Canada is that it’s [00:17:00] different expertise.

[00:17:00] Brigitte: From different perspectives, some with lived experience, some who are caregivers as parents, some who are caregivers as adult children, caring for their adult parents, and bringing all of those perspectives [00:17:15] together from different therapy areas as well. Just allowed me to understand at the macro level, what are we trying to accomplish in Canada?

[00:17:23] Brigitte: What are we trying to accomplish at Roche Canada? Really understanding that in Canada what’s important in a [00:17:30] federation is also how the system works together and how we can make change at the system level, not just within different therapy areas. So it was really important that Co-Creation Council continues to this day.

[00:17:44] Brigitte: It’s taking [00:17:45] different shapes and forms. We have different members coming in with different perspectives. We’re mobilizing to also create. A council similar to this one in Quebec, so that we make sure that we’re appreciating all perspectives. But that’s a little bit of what’s [00:18:00] important to me is that I don’t anchor too much on my own beliefs, but I’m listening to other beliefs and that if we’re doing our job well, it is about making sure that stakeholder perspectives are informing where we need to consider change.[00:18:15] 

[00:18:15] Ursula: Yeah. Beautiful. Listening is so important. It’s important to come with your own perspectives as well, but I can sense even hear your openness to understanding and learning and the highlight of the different perspectives that people [00:18:30] bring from lived experience to different fronts on the caregivers is very fascinating.

[00:18:34] Ursula: Thank you for sharing that. 

[00:18:36] Anne Marie: After returning to Canada for a while and getting, familiar with what was important here to stakeholders and whatnot you made a decision to [00:18:45] introduce a new role at Roche. Which actually, you know, that the patient community really responded well to chief Patient Experience Officer.

[00:18:54] Anne Marie: So I just wanna explore a little bit what your thinking was in creating this role. And then what you’ve [00:19:00] learned you’ve now the, I think the role has been in place for close to a year. So what you’ve learned. 

[00:19:06] Brigitte: Yeah, just coming onto a year. And the great part is I’m learning every day from our chief patient experience officer, and she’s brought so much [00:19:15] perspective to the table, which we can talk through.

[00:19:16] Brigitte: And what I will say is what we were observing within the organization, and again, I’m talking the broad organization of Roche, the whole site. So we have now today nine different functions that represent Roche [00:19:30] Canada. And what we’re trying to do is make sure. That we have that catalyzing around patient inclusivity taking place across all the functions.

[00:19:40] Brigitte: Doesn’t matter if you work in clinical trials or manufacturing or informatics [00:19:45] or the commercial division of medicines or diagnostics. How are we bringing in? The patient perspective in all of our work, and that was really the impetus. How do you create a role that’s a connector, that’s a relationship builder that [00:20:00] allows us to understand that the patient perspective can help the continuum of how a medicine or a diagnostic is developed.

[00:20:07] Brigitte: Not just one team in one part of the organization working with one set of stakeholders, but how do we really think about this [00:20:15] much more broadly? Across our work and the reason perhaps Anne-Marie, that the. Community is responding well is because the community was part of developing the role. So we didn’t develop the role in isolation.

[00:20:27] Brigitte: Anne Marie was actually a big part of that development and [00:20:30] led an exercise where we talked, I think it was over 65 stakeholders participated in a. Consulting with us and giving us perspectives as to how we could best create this role, including our co-creation council looking at it. And we [00:20:45] specifically designed the role as somebody who had to have lived experience in order to get this role.

[00:20:51] Brigitte: So I believe this role might exist in other parts of the industry and other parts of the world. And it typically tended to [00:21:00] be a healthcare practitioner who led the role. And for us it was very important that it was actually someone with lived experience, somebody who brought other relevant experience in terms of healthcare knowledge, having worked across healthcare, having [00:21:15] led consultative processes, having led change management processes.

[00:21:19] Brigitte: But that critical criteria with somebody with lived experience. 

[00:21:25] Ursula: Talk about creating waves and this, certainly, this was a mic drop [00:21:30] situation in Canada. People were like, what? What happened? Tell me more. It was quite fascinating to see everything that happened and working alongside the patient co-create, co-creation council to discuss matters of the company and also create This role is just so [00:21:45] incredibly thoughtful, and I’m sure there were many discussions with changes to that job description as it went across.

[00:21:51] Ursula: Given that this is new and while there have been different things happening in other jurisdictions, I’m interested in your thoughts on what advice would you [00:22:00] give other senior leaders in the industry that are thinking about what to do and watching from the sidelines as to what’s happening here.

[00:22:07] Brigitte: There’s maybe a couple of areas, Ursula, maybe the first one is we created this role with that kind of catalyzing perspective. [00:22:15] We aren’t the only one. I do wanna call out that when we look at other parts of our healthcare system and that consultative nature, I also wanna call out, changes that I’m also seeing.

[00:22:26] Brigitte: Taking place across even CDA [00:22:30] Canada’s drug agency. And they also have the voice of the patient directly on their board of directors, I believe now, and really made a movement towards appreciating again that people with lived experience have a different perspective that’s [00:22:45] important to consider when you’re making decisions.

[00:22:47] Brigitte: And so I think you have our. Perspective and change. At Roche Canada. You have an external government body like CDA, also making those kinds of changes. You have very sophisticated, [00:23:00] thoughtful organizations across Canada who do lead with that patient perspective. In mine, you have an organization like yours, Ursula, that’s developing.

[00:23:10] Brigitte: So I think it is that amalgamation of all of that perspective that’s [00:23:15] creating movement and momentum and I think that for all of us as business leaders in Canada, it behooves us to understand different perspectives and incorporate that perspective more and more. And I think it is an evolution [00:23:30] of what we require as patients ourselves.

[00:23:33] Brigitte: We are part of decision making. Is taking place with our physicians now. There is, we used to talk about it back in the seventies and eighties, maybe a bit more paternalistic, but as we’ve gotten [00:23:45] into, the recent years, and perhaps it was influenced by the pandemic, perhaps other situations.

[00:23:51] Brigitte: However, I can see that people are taking more and more ownership for their care. They’re part of the dialogue with their physicians and their healthcare [00:24:00] practitioners. They’re part of making choices in their medicines. They’re part of advocating for better medicines. And so when I think about all of that, that was really part of the drive.

[00:24:10] Brigitte: I don’t think. I don’t think this is a nice to do anymore. I think this [00:24:15] is what must be done. If we really want to evolve our healthcare systems, if we want them to be the most responsive they can be to those that they serve patients and their families, then we really have to think what is the patient perspective [00:24:30] across all of, across the chain of developing a medicine. And I’m not gonna say it was easy, Ursula and Emory, and I’m not going to say that there are moments that we are learning every day and we can talk about some of those immediate learnings. But I just think [00:24:45] it’s important to your point about other business leaders, this is.

[00:24:49] Brigitte: If we’re going to evolve a healthcare system that’s learning, that’s, that is changing, that’s evolving, that is iterative. Then it has to be more mindful of different perspectives and the [00:25:00] patient perspective has to be at the center, 

[00:25:02] Ursula: right. That’s incredible. Thanks for sharing that. And we’ve come a long way from the culture of many years ago, somebody walking in and not being informed and just asking the doctor what he or she [00:25:15] thinks and wanting to follow through with digital advantages, technology, the internet.

[00:25:20] Ursula: Dr. Kugel, things are changing with people looking for information, asking questions, and like you very much described wanting a seat at the table. And [00:25:30] I think one of the things that we try to do very carefully is build that profile as to what is the criteria of the people in this situation that we need to learn from and what does that look like?

[00:25:41] Ursula: So thank you for sharing all that. It’s so important. 

[00:25:44] Anne Marie: [00:25:45] We’ve just spent a little bit of time talking about health systems, so I think maybe this is a good segue into maybe your role leading IMC or Innovative Medicines Canada maybe Brae. Could you tell us a little bit about that [00:26:00] organization and then, how you’re thinking about bringing some of this this type of thinking into that organization and where you see the opportunities for the industry to contribute to that healthier, more sustainable [00:26:15] future for Canadian patients. 

[00:26:17] Brigitte: Yeah, happy to. So Innovative Medicines Canada is our association that represents companies within the life sciences sector.

[00:26:25] Brigitte: So it’s the innovative pharmaceutical industry and members range from [00:26:30] startups to well-established global companies like our own. And it is all focused on the innovative side of medicines. So discovering, developing researching and delivering new medicines of vaccines to Canadians. Interestingly, when we looked at the latest [00:26:45] stats can report, we are roughly in the life sciences sector, over 100,000 employees across Canada and investing about $3.2 billion in r and d over every year.

[00:26:58] Brigitte: So really [00:27:00] important, from an R and d perspective. And then our economic activities as a whole also generate about $18 billion per year in the Canadian economy. So a really important sector, and we’re really pleased to have innovative medicines Canada represent our different perspectives [00:27:15] together and work, as you said, amory at that systems level to really ensure that Canadians, and their families are able to access.

[00:27:22] Brigitte: New medicines, new vaccines, when they need them, no matter where they are across the country. So that really is our passion [00:27:30] for IMC. I’ve been the chair of the board for two and a half years now, and it’s been a privilege to work with such thoughtful incredible leaders. Across the different companies and across the association itself.

[00:27:43] Brigitte: So it’s been wonderful. [00:27:45] And in that we’ve been engaging with different organizations, different stakeholders, really all in that vein of how could we think about access to medicines differently. When we look at where we are internationally as Canada, we are 19 out of [00:28:00] 20 OECD countries. That’s our ranking in terms of the speed at which new medicines are available on public drug plans.

[00:28:07] Brigitte: That is not great. We can do better. We know we can do better, and I think the best part is after the past three years of [00:28:15] conversation, whether you are in the public sector or the private sector, or the not-for-profit sector, I think we all want the exact same thing. We all want to understand how new medicines can be available to Canadians in a timely way.

[00:28:29] Brigitte: In a [00:28:30] way that understands the value of that medicine and how it plays a role in healthcare systems and how it helps advance healthcare systems and it can make them sustainable over time. So medicines often offset costs in other parts of the healthcare system. So [00:28:45] how can we have these broad conversations altogether?

[00:28:48] Brigitte: And our President, Bettina Hamley and her team and the board, were constantly looking at ways to be a bit more impactful, a bit more meaningful in our work. And I certainly know that [00:29:00] our chief chief patient experience officer is having a lot of conversations with staff. About how we can think differently about patient inclusivity in our work.

[00:29:10] Brigitte: How we can be perhaps, how we can modernize some of our approaches, how [00:29:15] we can think differently about those voices, and how we think about our understanding of new medicines to come. Huh? And maybe I’ll close with just this industry. It’s so dynamic. It’s so energetic, it’s so cutting [00:29:30] edge, right?

[00:29:30] Brigitte: The science of yesterday is not the science of tomorrow. We’re talking now about leaps and bounds in science gene therapies. CAR T therapies. We’re talking about subcutaneous therapies. We’re talking [00:29:45] about oral oncology medications. We’re talking about things we weren’t talking about 10 years ago.

[00:29:49] Brigitte: Ursula mentioned technology, how technology is changing the way that our healthcare systems work and how medicines are discovered. And so how do we work all [00:30:00] together and understand those. Perspectives and understand how healthcare systems have to evolve with this cutting edge science that’s coming.

[00:30:08] Brigitte: The science that is both part of it being biological work, scientific work, part of it being informatics work and [00:30:15] how AI takes place and how all these pieces come together, right? We’re at this real forefront of innovation between biology and informatics. And how do we understand it? We have to get the patient perspective in it.

[00:30:27] Brigitte: They are the ones who are going to be living [00:30:30] in that healthcare system of the future. They are the ones who are going to be thinking about those new medicines and getting their views upfront and really informing our work is how we’re gonna make a better system altogether. 

[00:30:42] Ursula: That’s incredible. Thank you for sharing all that.

[00:30:44] Ursula: And [00:30:45] patience at the forefront is certainly. The right way to go, and we learn things that we didn’t know before, we didn’t understand, or we didn’t consider that statistics. With Canada being so slow at approving innovative medicines, as we are an [00:31:00] apologetic group in Canada, we’re almost apologizing to ourselves for that number, and we want it to see.

[00:31:05] Ursula: It happened that patients have access faster to medications, and I can hear the hope in your voice around working together at a systems level to see how things can be [00:31:15] done, understood, and ultimately have greater impact to make things move a lot faster. I’m interested, as you think about this year ahead, although we’re already in the.

[00:31:25] Ursula: Ways of planning for next year. What are you most excited about for the pharmaceutical [00:31:30] industry with that hopeful sentiment in mind as to one thing that you’re really looking forward to?

[00:31:36] Brigitte: I am hopeful, Ursula, and I’m hopeful because I don’t wanna give the impression that there hasn’t been progress over the past three years.

[00:31:43] Brigitte: We are seeing movement [00:31:45] across our health systems, and whether I think about Canada’s drug agency bringing in new innovations like. Societal perspectives and understanding how societal perspectives can be part of the [00:32:00] review and assessments that are made. So if we are looking at productivity metrics, if we’re offsetting costs in another part of the healthcare system, how can we have those conversations about a medicine in a different way?

[00:32:11] Brigitte: So our health technology assessment. Is evolving, [00:32:15] which is really important. We’re seeing different governments come forward. Provincially really looking at how could we work and partner together to make sure medicines are available to Canadians faster? And I can see those conversations coming to the forefront.

[00:32:28] Brigitte: And so I think that’s [00:32:30] probably what I’m most excited to see. Ursula’s might be twofold, if you’ll allow me two things versus one. I’m hopeful this time next year we’re going to see really strong advances in terms of timeliness of medicines and how we can work [00:32:45] together to make sure medicines are making their way to patients in a faster and more thoughtful way.

[00:32:50] Brigitte: And I’m really hopeful because I can see momentum, I can see the different ways that we’re working together. I can see new processes coming through. I can see red tape [00:33:00] being deferred. And I am hopeful that it’s going to be meaningful. The other side of things is that I see how technology is coming forward and how health data systems are starting to integrate, and I am encouraging.

[00:33:13] Brigitte: I don’t think we’re gonna have it all [00:33:15] solved this time next year. We’ll try. Yet. I am encouraged by how our governments are working together. To really bring this information together. If we’re going to talk about the [00:33:30] economy, if we’re going to talk about bringing down interprovincial trade barriers, we also have to talk about how healthcare systems, how health data systems are also going to break down barriers.

[00:33:40] Brigitte: And we have to talk about how they can be interoperable across the country because if [00:33:45] our information can move quickly, thoughtfully, securely, safely, and an aggregate way. Across the country, then we’re able to make really sound decisions, whether it’s on the research front. Imagine we could have more Canadian [00:34:00] startups, more Canadian research coming forward, more Canadian research commercializing in Canada, and then you can see how healthcare systems can then adapt, how they can make the right investments in the right place if they have access to the data in aggregated.

[00:34:14] Brigitte: [00:34:15] Thoughtful way, and then you can think about patient care and how that’s going to change. If you’re a person living in one province and you move to another province, you don’t have to print off 10,000 pages of your health records just to bring them to the next province, but that it transfers seamlessly [00:34:30] if you’re traveling from one province to another to enjoy your vacation and something should happen to you.

[00:34:35] Brigitte: Your information travels with you. Digitally versus having to remember everything that’s taking place. I just think there’s so much more that we can [00:34:45] offer on the technology front. I’m really excited to see where that’s going to evolve, and I think all of us have a really important voice and I’m really encouraged as to how the federal level.

[00:34:55] Brigitte: The provincial and territorial levels of working together through Kai High’s leadership and [00:35:00] others. And we certainly wanna be part of that conversation. 

[00:35:02] Anne Marie: I always learn so much when I have a conversation with you, Brigitte if I can maybe just what I think I’ve heard in the last half hour or so that we’ve been chatting I’ve heard [00:35:15] listen more, connect more.

[00:35:18] Anne Marie: And don’t anchor too much in your own beliefs. And I think if we all think this way in whatever role we have, whatever networks we operate within, if we all remember [00:35:30] those things, I think we’ll move the dial on things a little bit. Thank you. For your generosity, for spending time with us this morning, I’d like to just maybe ask one last question.

[00:35:42] Anne Marie: What are you reading these days? Do you have any recommendations for [00:35:45] us? 

[00:35:47] Brigitte: First of all, thank you for the invitation. Thank you for letting me part of this conversation. I could sit with you for another hour, I’m sure, and discuss different perspectives. So hopefully this has given a little taste of one perspective [00:36:00] and looking forward to continuing our conversations into the months and years to come.

[00:36:04] Brigitte: What am I reading? I just finished really. I really like Kate Quinn as an author. So what I try to do on my personal time is just break away from all the briefing [00:36:15] notes. And but I do love historical fiction and I love historical fiction that have strong female leads. And so I’ve really gravitated towards Kate Quinn and I finished actually two books over my recent vacation in August.

[00:36:28] Brigitte: The first one was the [00:36:30] Briar Club. Which I really loved. And the other was the Phoenix Crown, which was actually Kate Quinn and a Canadian author Jenny Chang. And really appreciated their take on yeah, their take on World War II and what was taking place at that [00:36:45] time and really enjoyed it.

[00:36:46] Brigitte: So any Kate Quinn book is fantastic. You’re gonna love it. 

[00:36:50] Ursula: Lovely. That’s fantastic and I did not know about the historical fiction love, so thank you for sharing. While we’re sharing personal things, I remember the first time I met [00:37:00] Jit, I was taken aback by her amazing shoes. And I remember thinking to myself, these fabulous silver shoes, I want to go shopping with her.

[00:37:09] Ursula: And she’s my nanny. Hahaha side note on the shoes, I don’t think I ever shared that with [00:37:15] you, but wanna say a huge thank you today, Brigitte for connecting with us sharing what you’ve been reading. I’m now gonna check out these books and the historical fiction. And Marie, thanks for this conversation as well.

[00:37:28] Ursula: Lea learning and hearing [00:37:30] more about the unique leadership style. I agree we could chat for many more hours, so to be continued, but the waves that you’re making from pairing both your personal experience and I wanna say a heartfelt thank you for the willingness to share your experiences and the [00:37:45] honest open situations that you found yourself in.

[00:37:48] Ursula: Navigating care, which I know firsthand is very scary when you’re moving to take that all and put it together thoughtfully from your past experience in government to now a significant leadership role at [00:38:00] a large pharmaceutical company to make things happen for patients. I know that we said change maker at the beginning, and I appreciate Annemarie’s direction that she really thinks the words that come to mind are authentic, courageous, and pragmatic.

[00:38:12] Ursula: So I wholeheartedly agree and you’ve [00:38:15] given us lots to think about in our audience as well, in terms of everything that’s happening. There’s a lot of hope moving forward and some significant interesting. Things happening in the marketplace, including the strong advances for timeliness of medications and access, which is so [00:38:30] important, and we all look forward to seeing how that moves forward and the technology coming forward within health systems, data interoperability, patients owning their own data.

[00:38:38] Ursula: Knowing what you’re walking into is so important in a particular area I’m passionate about. So Brigitte, thank you for [00:38:45] joining us today and having this conversation, and we look forward to more time to come.

[00:38:54] Ursula: Thanks for tuning into Amplify. A podcast powered by Patient Voice Partners. If today’s [00:39:00] story moved, you share it, leave a review and help us amplify more voices. 

[00:39:05] Brent: If you’re a patient or caregiver, you can join Patient Voice Connect. To share your experience and help shape research and care, visit patient voice partners.com to [00:39:15] sign up or learn more.

[00:39:16] Ursula: If you’re a clinician advocate, innovator, or system leader, and you’d like to be a guest on the show or share a story, reach out directly through the contact form on that same page. You’re also welcome to join anonymously if [00:39:30] preferred. 

[00:39:30] Brent: Follow us on LinkedIn at Patient Voice Partners for updates. Behind the scenes content and to meet our upcoming guests.

[00:39:37] Ursula: Until next time, stay connected. Your voice [00:39:45] matters.